Better Place Project with Steve Norris
Better Place Project with Steve Norris
Jillian Turecki: Embracing the Dance of Modern Love and Self-Discovery - Encore Performance
Caught in the whirlwind of modern love and personal transformation, I, Steve Norris, alongside the insightful relationship coach Jillian Turecki, share an intimate view on the dance of connection and self-discovery. In a world where the swipe of a finger can dictate the next chapter of our love lives, we unpack the digital age's impact on relationships and the courage it takes to nurture authenticity. As we unravel the threads of connection, you'll be privy to heart-stirring stories and transformative wisdom that beckon you to look inward and foster healthier bonds with those you cherish.
Journey with us as we traverse the challenging terrain of personal growth, illuminated by my own raw experiences of loss and change. The conversation veers into the uncharted territories of self-awareness, where the power of accountability and communication skills becomes your compass for navigating relationship dynamics. Jillian's no-nonsense approach encourages listeners to confront fears, engage in effective dialogue, and embrace the potent alchemy of self-reflection to reshape not only their romantic ties but all interpersonal relationships.
As we tie together the threads of our discussion, actionable insights emerge on maintaining intimacy in long-term commitments and finding balance during life's major upheavals, such as divorce. Discover how the sanctity of morning routines, the grounding force of meditation, and the joy of shared passions can rekindle the embers of connection. Each narrative shared is a testament to the resilience of the human heart, a guiding light for those seeking to thrive within the complex tapestry of love and life's relentless evolution.
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Hey everybody, Steve Norris, here this week. I am so honored to bring you an encore presentation of our number one downloaded episode of all time my conversation with the one and only relationship coach and teacher, Jillian Cherecki.
Speaker 2:I have a few clients who've met the love of their lives on dating apps, but a lot of people who are very frustrated by it. I think that, look, it's the world that we live in. I think what makes it very difficult and sad is that this whole swiping culture it's like everyone is just so disposable and that's not what we need. We need more connection, and so I really find that part of it incredibly difficult for people to navigate and I find it really sad. If you're going to be on the apps, a couple of things Don't say what it is that you don't want. Focus on what it is that you do want.
Speaker 1:Make the world a better place. Make the world a better place. Hey, hey, I'm Steve Norris. Welcome to Better Place Project, where each week, we shine a light on amazing humans from every corner of the planet who are doing extraordinary things to help make the world a better place, including sharing their knowledge with us on how we can be living healthier, happier, more purposeful lives.
Speaker 1:Okay, guys, I've got some good news and some bad news. The bad news is that I am down for the count with the worst flu I've had in years. I remember in 2016, I was in London and I got my first case of the flu and like 15, or might've even been 20 years since I'd had the flu I just don't get the flu very often at all and it kicked my butt. I was pretty much in bed for a week. Well, I got this one this last Friday and I spent the better part of the weekend in bed, and it's now Monday and I'm still MIA. But I did manage to crawl out of my hole to record this intro for you. But the good news is that I recorded this week's conversation last week when I was feeling great, so you won't have to listen to this horribly congested voice the entire episode, and I also wanted to give you all a heads up that I'll be taking a couple of weeks off from the show, as I'll be working on some other projects for the next couple of weeks. But don't worry, I will be back soon. This is a great time to binge past episodes while I'm away and if you haven't already, don't forget to follow us or subscribe to make sure you don't miss our next episode. But let's get to today's guest, and wow, this is a good one.
Speaker 1:Jillian Turecki is a certified relationship coach, teacher and writer who for 20 years has taught others how to transform their relationships with themselves Under the tutelage of Tony Robbins and world-renowned family therapist Chloe Madonis. Jillian is certified by the Robbins Madonis Center for Strategic Intervention, a renowned coaching program known for its innovative strategic solutions to the most difficult relationship problems. Fueled by an insatiable curiosity about what makes a relationship thrive, jillian has helped thousands through her teaching and writing to revolutionize their relationship with themselves so that they transform their relationships with others. Jillian has sought out for her compassionate, direct and very authentic style of coaching and teaching. First of all, if you guys haven't already, go out and follow Jillian on Instagram at Jillian Turecki, that's T-U-R-E-C-K-I, and you'll see why she's blown up with over 275,000 followers.
Speaker 1:Her advice is just so unique and spot on and, as you'll hear in this interview, so much of her work is focused on fixing ourselves Because, as she says, every relationship that I've ever had had one thing in common and that was me says every relationship that I've ever had had one thing in common, and that was me. So, if we really want to improve our current relationship or attract the right partner, we have to start with ourselves, and that's where Jillian is just brutally honest. I think you'll love this conversation Without further ado. Jillian Turecki. Welcome to the show. Jillian, make the world a better place. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:Jillian Hi. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:So awesome to have you. Let's dive right in, as I like to do so much, and start right off the bat on having you tell us a little bit about your childhood and kind of the events that led up to you being the relationship coach guru that you are today.
Speaker 2:Wow, I wasn't expecting childhood Okay.
Speaker 1:Are we going to need to extend this an extra hour now?
Speaker 2:I'm like I don't know what. So I, you know, I was born and raised in Manhattan. You know, I, my, my parents were immigrants, my father originally from Poland is a psychiatrist right or a psychologist?
Speaker 1:Yeah, my father's a psychiatrist.
Speaker 2:My mom was, you know, a model at one point and then just basically a housewife. They my father was originally from Poland, but when he was an infant it was basically like the end of world war ii and um, so they he and his and my grandparents escaped poland, um, and lived in, uh, sweden for a few years before um moving to immigrating to south africa, which is where he met my mom. He went to medical school in South Africa, grew up from like 12 years old up into adulthood in South Africa, and then my parents came to New York City in the late 60s. So, yeah, so I'm a first generation, you know, grew up, so I'm a first generation, you know, grew up partying in New York City and I, you know, I had it's really hard to say, I mean, I think by a lot of people's standard I think I had a fine childhood.
Speaker 2:I had a very complicated relationship with my father and my mom and my father had a really terribly toxic relationship. So I mean, yes, you know, any therapist I went to when I was a kid was like you did not have a great childhood, but I think it's all relative you know, I had a I was able to go to private school.
Speaker 2:I went to camp. I got you know. I was able to have those privileges. When I graduated college, no one told me that it was okay to not know what you wanted to do with your life at 21 years old and being raised by immigrant parents you're and I'm sure anyone who's listening to this who are first generation. There is this expectation of the American dream, which is that you got to go to college. You have to get a corporate job, like you need a lot of certainty, you need a lot of stability, which it's not a bad message at all, but stability was what it was all about. So I was expected to go the corporate route.
Speaker 2:I have two older sisters. One of my older sisters went the corporate route and I was absolutely miserable. I mean, I worked at a you know really big corporate giants for a while and then I was like, okay, I'm gonna work in fashion and just work for, like you know, like two women in like a loft and doing fashion and stuff like that. So I and then I hated that and I think that so when I was in my twenties, knowing that I had to figure out a career and that was very important not not knowing what would make me happy. I was very, very stressed out because I hated the corporate world and I realized that I actually hated working for other people.
Speaker 1:As did I.
Speaker 2:Yes, hated it, but I didn't have any. There was no like I'm going to become a lawyer, I'm going to become a doctor. So I became a yoga teacher and my mom I'll never forget my mom was like okay, not exactly the security that I was looking for for you, but what can I do? You beat to your own drum and ultimately I was supported in that.
Speaker 1:In fact, speaking of which I literally just found out last night, by the way, lisa, my partner, who works behind the scenes on the show, who's a huge fan of you, and she's the one that turned me on to you and we were talking last night that I'm so excited to finally. You know, I've been following you since she told me about you and and and. What I didn't know until last night is that you're actually we've had Skylar Grant on the show and that you've worked with her out of New York, going way back oh yeah, yeah, Skylar is a very she's like family to me and she was my she's awesome, and so is Jeff.
Speaker 1:They both were on the show, jeff as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So Skylar was my mentor for many years and I guess you could say she was my boss because I worked for Kula Yoga Project. But it's not the same thing as working for someone out in the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, sure.
Speaker 2:So I became a yoga teacher because I had discovered yoga and it completely changed my life and I knew from the moment that I began practicing yoga that it was going to be in my life until I died. I had a sense that I was really building, or starting embarking on, a relationship that was never going to end. And then I wanted to teach it and I did, and I taught in New York and taught with Skylar and under Skylar's tutelage as well, and did that for, you know, 17 years, and but I would say that about 10 years ago was when I started to feel antsy, and it wasn't that I didn't want to teach anymore, but I wanted what I was doing. Teaching yoga was not enough, but I had absolutely no idea what I wanted to do, and I also had this this this belief that's always been a part of me was which is that you know, I have to get married and I want a child.
Speaker 2:So I, I, I just it was almost like a little another existential crisis. I'm like what do I want to do? And I didn't know and I ended up actually getting married and that was a complete disaster. It was actually a pretty good relationship up until we got married, although there were red flags that I definitely ignored, but that ended up being a complete disaster, and during that time of when we were splitting up, my mom was diagnosed with lung cancer and was given very little time to live.
Speaker 1:I heard about that.
Speaker 2:stage four yes, stage four lung cancer, which you don't survive. So I, in 2014, I, you know, I had a dark night of the soul. My husband left me, I had a miscarriage I actually had a miscarriage even before that and my mom was dying. And I just remember thinking, okay, this is what it is, this is what it means when your life falls apart, like literally, like what paper children says, sure, yeah. And it was a serious dark night of the soul, it was terrible.
Speaker 1:You describe it. I've heard you describe it as the day you died. Yes, it was essentially. You know and it's so interesting, jillian, that you and I are both involved in something right now as a result of I went through a very, very similar dark night of the soul and I talked openly about it on past episodes that just everything in my life just went to hell, and it was just a really, really dark period. But out of that sprung this podcast, you know. So isn't that interesting how, so many times, when we go through these darkest times, you know, we do become a seeker, if you will, of something that, that, something that's for our soul that's for our purpose and our passion, as opposed to what we are kind of taught in school.
Speaker 1:Go get a good job that pays well, so you buy a house, get married, have kids and have the career and all that, and it sounds like the career life certainly was not fulfilling for you as well. So was it that I'm assuming that you said okay, let's look back over my relationship? Why did it go badly and at what point? Because you talk so much about accountability and I want to get to that as well At what point did you start holding yourself accountable for some of the things that maybe you could have done differently?
Speaker 2:Because those are so many of the things that I had had for what my life would look like and who would be in it, just went up in flames Like I thought I would be, you know, by that time, married with a kid, maybe two kids. I thought you know for sure my mom would be alive or, you know, not be diagnosed with lung cancer. I had also, just like four years prior to that, lost my stepfather, who I was very close to. So when I say that that was the day that I died, it was like everything that I thought life was going to be totally turned out not to be what it was going to be. You know it.
Speaker 2:Just, the blueprint went up in flames and I had this, this feeling of wait, something must be wrong with me which then, over time, became accountability in a much healthier way, as opposed to just like I'm broken, but I felt really broken, I. So the transition for me was, you know, one day it was actually the day after my husband left and I was sitting outside because I have a dog and you know, my dog allowed, you know, made it so that I had to be outside and my friend, who was also a life coach and back then, you know, it wasn't like everyone, no one was really talking about life coaching, it was certainly not an industry that I was even aware of. And she found me and we started talking and she brought up Tony Robbins and I was like the infomercial guy with the big this is your friend, anna.
Speaker 1:Yes, my friend, exactly.
Speaker 2:See, I listened to your podcast, you talk about this Very impressive, very impressive, yeah.
Speaker 2:So my friend Anna, who I'm still very close with, and she, you know and this was like before Again, like Tony was huge, but not in the same way I than he is now. This is, you know, we're talking about almost nine years, eight and a half years ago, anyway. So I started listening. I was very skeptical, but I was desperate, so I started listening to him and having him talk also about relationships, it's like everything started to make sense and that's what you know. Listening to him is what got me up out of bed every morning. And then I started to feel really inspired and I started to study more and I went to school and I hired a coach and I had a mentor who's his business partner, who's an 82-year-old woman. And then I have this other mentor who's a coach, who I've's an 82 year old woman. And then I have this other mentor who's a coach, who's who I've been working with for eight and a half years, who's been phenomenal, especially in helping me build my business.
Speaker 2:And and I realized that and I that, whatever happened between me and my ex-husband or me and anyone else, I had to be able to see my part. I had to see where my stuff was interfering, as well as be able to see where their stuff was interfering, like I had to be able to. It's I wanted to get clarity, because closure really comes. People talk about closure like it's something that someone can gift to you, but they can't. Closure is really a state of clarity and it's when you're like, oh, I'm starting to understand this and in that understanding, you're understanding what you did, the things that you did to contribute to the problems where you're lacking skill Because I mean, look, we're just not taught this in school Exactly and also clarity about what was really them. And so that's where this whole idea of accountability is so important.
Speaker 2:And when I started to work with people, I realized, no matter how thin you slice a story, there's always two sides to the story. Now, let's put aside abuse and anything like that, because there are instances of that and I'm not really interested in, you know, having someone who's a victim of vile abuse to be accountable. However, as someone who was, you know, I was in a very, very horribly abusive verbally and emotionally abusive relationship in my late 20s. Verbally and emotionally abusive relationship in my late twenties. And if I was not able to say, jillian, you need to look in the mirror and figure out why the hell you you.
Speaker 2:You accepted that and also the worst came out in me, like I trust me. I had toxic behavior in that relationship too. So I really do believe that accountability actually applies to everyone, although I just know that if someone is like in the throes of something abusive, that's not where I would want them to go first. It's like see how they're accountable, but put that aside, let's shelve that for a moment. They're really almost.
Speaker 2:There's always two sides and if you don't see that you have something to do with it, then you don't have agency over your life. And you need to have agency over your life, even if that means like you have to learn how to listen more, you have to learn how to choose better partners, or you have to learn how to communicate, or you have to learn yourself. It has steam has to go up or your self-esteem has to level out. You know whatever it is Got to see. You know, or your daddy issues or your mommy issue, whatever it is like. You got to be able to see it. You have to be able to see it to change it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I, I love a quote that you said on your podcast and you said if we want a relationship that lasts and is fulfilling while it lasts, we have to build unshakable courage to face our fears all the things you're talking about right now and learn the skills none of us were taught in school and, for many of us, in childhood. So can we drill down a little bit more on these? Obviously, self-reflection, I think, is a type of skill holding ourselves accountable but what are some of these other skills you're talking about when you say that, Like you wish we were taught in school?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so communication skills.
Speaker 1:Perfect.
Speaker 2:Number one, I mean, I think in school. A lot of schools will teach you how to debate. Ah how to defend a thesis.
Speaker 1:How to be defensive, sure, and aren't we all defensive when things come up in relationships?
Speaker 2:Or how to present, and none of that means jack shit when it comes to a relationship. So the skills are learning how to communicate. I think that it's really important that, if you are in a relationship with someone of the opposite gender, that you understand that person's psychology as well, because men and women are different and so, like you know, you can't expect your boyfriend, lover whatever to be just like all your girlfriends, and vice versa. I think that also understanding yourself and understanding your own psychology, understanding just your hormonal system, you know, understanding your emotions, understanding you know there are people who were taught that having emotions meant you were weak. Well, you can only imagine what that does to a person in relationships. They're having a really hard time. And then there are also people who were never taught how to regulate their emotions.
Speaker 2:They, too, are having a really hard time, and our parents did the best that they could, and not only that. Our parents. Probably, in some, some of our parents did better than what we give them credit for. Some of them do worse. You know, these are just. It's being able to, yes, have the self-reflection, but the skills are learning how to speak and how to communicate, not just with your actions, not just with your words, but with your actions, with your body language. That's very important.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's interesting what you just mentioned about men sometimes and not showing emotions times and not showing emotions, and so many times we feel we get mixed signals from women that say they want us to be these vulnerable guys that get emotional, and then, when we do like you said, all of a sudden we're a wimp now. In fact, that exact same thing happened when I got out on the dating world years ago, after being as I told you before we started recording this call today that I was in a long-term marriage for 23 and a half years. And when I was back out on the dating world, I remember being on a first date with somebody that I met on some goofy app and she says to me oh my gosh, my ex. He was just such a wimp. I remember he cried when his dog died and I remember thinking when Max, my golden retriever, died that my kids grew up with at 12, 13 years, I cried like a baby and I'm thinking okay, next.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that would be what we refer to as a red flag. Just someone talking about their ex in any derogatory way. I'm not a fan of.
Speaker 1:I totally agree with that If they badmouth their ex, like with the possible exception that you mentioned earlier if there was physical, verbal abuse, that sort of thing. It's a completely inexcusable type of behavior. But totally agree If they come in and say ah yeah, he was you know, never listened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no, terrible, total red flag.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep, yep, yeah, and to your point, we do have to look deep inside ourselves and change the way we see ourselves and see our parents. As you say, authenticity always wins. What does it mean to you to be authentic and to show up in an authentic way in our relationships?
Speaker 2:So to be authentic is to actually be true to yourself. So that means that you are not trying to be someone else, like, let's say, in a dating scenario. You are not in any way strategizing to get someone to be more interested in you. You're not pretending to be someone that you're not. You're not pretending to like something that you don't, that you that you don't like. You are totally brutally honest about what you come to the table with and that you know like, for example, like if you want kids, you have to be upfront about that. That would just be authenticity.
Speaker 2:But in a relationship, it means telling the truth, and telling the truth based on how it is that you feel, because a lot of people are too afraid to rock the boat in their relationship, and sometimes that's even unconscious. They think you know why bother, you know like that's just going to create more problems, or they're not going to understand, or they're it's just going to again, it's going to rock the boat, it's going to open up a Pandora's box. I don't want to do that. When you are living in that state inside of a relationship, you're not being authentic because you're not being true to yourself and then representing yourself truthfully outward to whomever you are in a relationship, but they're just anywhere. So I think that, first of all, it's not that easy to be authentic. We care about what other people think of us. Some of us obviously care what other people think of us more than others, right, and for those people who literally care so much, it's like they're in a prison. But everyone cares a little bit and we certainly care what the person who we certainly care about, what the person we're in a relationship with, how they think about us. I mean, we definitely care about that and it's difficult to always tell the truth in a relationship. But telling the truth is really the highest form of authenticity and it's not about like, oh I think you look kind of fat today, or I don't think you look great today, or something like that. It's not that kind of truth, it's.
Speaker 2:I've been, you know. I don't know if I want to have kids anymore, and I know you really want to have kids. I'm really hurt by something that you said and I really want to talk about it. Something that you said and I really want to talk about it. I don't like this thing that you do and I really am trying to figure out how to work with it. I don't know if I love you anymore. I don't, you know, like telling the truth, or I hate that you get stoned every single night.
Speaker 2:I, the fact that you, um, the fact that you're stressed out all the time makes me lose attraction to you, and I don't want to lose attraction to you. I don't want you to be stressed, like so there's a way to do it to lose attraction to you. I don't want you to be stressed, so there's a way to do it. That's kind, you know. Of course you want to be kind and not and not be blaming, but these are the things that people hold inside in their relationship and and it's a problem. And then there's lots of people it's a lot of women in general who really struggle. They never learned how to assert themselves in a relationship, so they've never learned how to say, like this doesn't work for me, because they think I'm not going to be loved, I'm not going to be the good girl, I'm not going to be like the perfect person, and then you're not being authentic person and then you're not being authentic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just what you said right there, jillian, just kind of segues me beautifully into what I wanted to kind of go towards next. And you've said that inside of all of us is a child who's terrified that they're not enough and desperately wants love. So we have to do the work to figure out how to feel enough, even if we don't feel enough all the time. And you mentioned that part of that is learning how to make ourselves happy. So for someone out there who's listening to this right now, who's struggling or maybe coming out of their own dark night of the soul, how can they start? What's step one on this journey of learning how to make ourselves happy?
Speaker 2:Right? Well, first I'll just say that we are not actually meant to be happy all the time. We're meant to have all sorts of emotion because we wouldn't recognize joy or happiness if we didn't have the opposite end of the absence of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we just wouldn't recognize it so we're not.
Speaker 2:So it's not about, like, it's not really the pursuit of happiness, necessarily, I think so there's two things. I think that, um, being able to access joy over the little things is a skill worth developing, like just being joyful over the fact that, like I don't know, like a stranger smiled at you, you know so, not having these, really these strict rules about what has to happen in order for you to be happy. So it's like, oh, I need, like I need to have everyone telling me that I'm great, or I need to have a relationship, or I need the sun to be shining, and then I'm happy. So, first, it's really about acknowledging where, how negative you are. You know, like, how much you are looking out in the world and only seeing like darkness, and I mean I know this intimately, I mean I just was. You know, I wasn't raised by two people who saw the glass half full, just wasn't. So I had I have to really consciously train myself to be able to see things in a more positive light, not in a I'm lying to myself and not seeing reality, but like not looking at something and seeing it worse than it is, either seeing it as it is or trying to see it better than it is, and so that would be step one.
Speaker 2:But also part of step one, which is the most important thing, is that if you're coming out of a dark night of the soul, even if it's a, even if it's a, it's a minor dark night of the soul, maybe it's a stuck in a rut, you feel lost dark night of the soul. Maybe it's a dark night of the soul Like, oh my God, your life, just like every, like people are dying around you, like it's awful. You have to figure out a way to find to make your life meaningful, even in the midst of suicidal. I would never do that to the people who love me, but I definitely had moments where I was like I wish I wasn't living. I think that's different than being suicidal, but I think I guess that's just more, just being depressed. But I had moments and what got me out of that suffering doesn't mean I wasn't in pain, doesn't mean I wasn't still hurting, doesn't mean the grief went away. The grief was very much there, I mean, for you know, I think I cried every single day for an entire year.
Speaker 2:But what got me out of the intense darkness suffering was, was, was listening to things that really inspired me and then working towards building this new future of trying to like, I was like, well, I'm just going to read all about this. I became absolutely obsessed about what makes a relationship work. I wanted to figure it out and I devoted all my time into energy, into that. And then my life started to have meaning again and all of a sudden, like this path was started, this new path was forging. So you need to figure out a way, if you're in a dark night of the soul, to figure out a way to have your life have meaning and purpose, and then happiness will find you here and there in those little moments. That's what's most important.
Speaker 1:Love it. Okay, I love this quote and I honestly can't remember if I pull it off your podcast or off of Instagram, but I think it so beautifully sums up kind of the whole accountability. And you said quote it's not that they do not know how to communicate, it's that you struggle with communicating effectively as well. It's not that they always leave. It's that you often leave yourself before they do. It's not that they always complain. It's that maybe you haven't been listening. It's not that there's just no passion left. It's that somehow, perhaps the passion has also gone out in you.
Speaker 1:If every person you've ever been with is needy, perhaps it's you that has a hard time relating. Maybe you keep withdrawing. And if you are someone who's had an affair, or many affairs, it's not because of the person you're in a relationship with. It has everything to do with you, you know, and so on. And now I'm remembering that was in your podcast. Yeah, that was in your podcast. Yeah, yeah Loved it.
Speaker 1:I had to pause because I wanted to write this down, because it was so beautifully said, but I think for me that just resonated on such a deep level and I think that's why you resonate so much with people in that so often you hear people talking about relationship coaches, for example, that say well, if you're with a person that's doing this and doing this, avoid these characteristics. It's always so much the dialogue is about them. Where with you, it's almost always within. If you look within, you'll start having better relationships. In fact, you even mentioned that you don't do a whole lot of couples counseling anymore. You like to do one-on-one. Can you talk a little bit about why that is and also talk about what I just mentioned, how important it is that we just continue to look at ourselves in every scenario, in our relationships, every scenario in our relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I really so. I had a wonderful therapist. She started off as our couples therapist when I was married and she did. There were some really great things that she did, but ultimately it was. It felt like a waste. I mean, she was wonderful therapist with me, but the couples like the two times, the few times that my ex-husband and I went to a therapist who was working with the two of us, it was absolutely useless.
Speaker 2:Yeah it was totally useless and I thought there's gotta be a different way to do, like something like what is this? And we were not being held accountable. We weren't like you need to be tough with couples. And so I, when I started my journey of relationship coaching, I really wanted to help couples and I worked with lots of them, but it's very exhausting. It's some couples it's like the couples that come to you and they're like we want to do better. It's great, but usually it's like one person comes in and they're saying and they're bringing their significant other and they're like fix them so that I can be happy that's exactly happened to me in a past relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah fix them so that I can be happy. And it's really, really, really intense, and what I found was that I really loved working with people who, whether they were in a relationship or not in a relationship, I liked working with people at different stages of their relationship journey. Either they were single and looking recently heartbroken, or they're in a relationship to help them change themselves so that they can, so that they can see that through changing themselves, their reality totally changed themselves. Their reality totally changed and I loved actually seeing that and so, and that's just, I just kind of evolved going that way.
Speaker 1:It's so funny. As you're telling that story, jillian, I had a deja vu. I was in a relationship for about four years and it was not a healthy relationship at all and just she had had a really, really horrible childhood and I'm kind of a I like to save and fix people and help people. But it was really verbally abusive on her part and that's how she kind of dealt with things. She lashed out at people and so I had to try for months and months and months to convince her let's go get help, let's go to counseling and so forth.
Speaker 1:We went to the therapist and she said well, you're the one that needs to fix yourself. You have all these issues. I'm fine, steve, you're the one that has all these issues. I said I'll take accountability, okay, but can we go together? Will you at least commit to our relationship and come with me? We go by the end of the session. The therapist says Steve, I'd like you to come back next week, if you would. I said, okay, great, and the whole way home my ex is saying see, I told you, it's you that needs to be fixed, that she doesn't even want me to come back in and I go back next week. And she said I wanted you to come back because I can help you. I can't do anything with her, there's nothing I could do with that mindset. And then the next comment was why are you with her? What is this relationship bringing to you? And it was like wow, and maybe in the thick of it, it still took me another year and a half before I got out of that relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't always see the red flags, even when they smack me across the face, you know.
Speaker 2:And it says red flag with neon lights.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah it looks kind of like a white flag.
Speaker 2:But anyway Thanks.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about staying in your head, there's so much of a stain in our head and if we stay too much in our head, our relationship is dead. What do you mean by that, and how do we get out of our head and I'm assuming you mean into our hearts?
Speaker 2:Yes. So when you're constantly in your people couples, when they're constantly in their heads, they are constantly creating stories and meanings about the other person, and it's usually it's very disempowering. They always do that, they always do this, they never do that. Why are they always doing that? If they really love me, then, and they're all of a sudden creating this whole narrative about the other person and their intentions and what happens is then, at the end of the day, the person saying, well, I don't know if they can meet my needs, because they are basing that conclusion on everything that they are ruminating about for months and maybe even years, as opposed to communicating, but then again, people don't really know how to communicate, right? So that's, that's really what it is. It's. It's it's the stories that we create and the meanings that we create about the people in our lives and about ourselves that completely destroy our lives, honestly, and we'll definitely destroy our relationship.
Speaker 1:You mentioned, obviously yoga has played a huge role in your life. Can you talk a little bit about meditation and what role has meditation played in your life and do you have a meditation practice?
Speaker 2:Yes, I do. You know, I'm yoga for many, many years was my meditation practice, because it's like it's movement and you know, and I've always had to move, I do have a meditation practice. I I practice mostly Vedic meditation, which is kind of like TM, but transcendental meditation, like I have a mantra and whatnot, and I used to be very strict about doing 20 minutes twice a day. Now I'm just happy if I get in 20 minutes. Sometimes I do an hour, so that's really, really impactful for me, especially in the morning when I don't do it, I notice and I also find journaling first thing in the morning, which I got from Julie Cameron's the Artist's Way.
Speaker 2:When you journal at least minimally three pages within 30 minutes of arising, I have found that to be one of the most cathartic things that I could possibly do. Minutes of arising I have found that to be one of the most cathartic things that I could possibly do. An ideal morning would include the journaling and then moving my body and then meditating, because I find that sitting down for meditation after I've moved my body is really profound. I'm still trying to figure out a way to do all that time wise, but, um, yeah. So, yes, I find meditation to be. I think everyone should meditate honestly totally agree and I'm I've it.
Speaker 1:I'm bringing it up almost every single episode because I feel, because I've seen so, so much the impact that it has made on my life, meditation and as well as breath work.
Speaker 2:A lot of people love breath work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that has completely changed my life. Some of the breath work that I've done and just taken me to an alter state that I never thought was possible without plant medicine or drugs and whatnot. So is that also? Do you do any particular type of breath work that you recommend? I?
Speaker 2:actually don't do breath work, although I'm in full support of it. I think it's really really, really powerful. I think that breath work can sometimes be tricky if you have a very sort of wiry nervous system. In other words, if your nervous system is very can get tense very easily. Breathwork can actually be disruptive to that, and so I've found it to be sometimes disruptive for me. But overall I find that breathwork is. I'm a huge supporter of it and will even recommend it to a lot of people.
Speaker 1:Excellent. You've talked about wanting getting back to kind of your work that you're currently doing. You kind of went, as you mentioned the Tony Robbins kind of you know, kind of a newer way of doing things and a newer way of teaching and training versus kind of the academic route, and I like the expression that you consider yourself more of an interventionist as opposed to a typical therapist that's going to just spend a ton of time going over your childhood, for example. So can you talk a little bit about that? And what do you mean when you get a new client, for example, and what type of intervention are you referring to?
Speaker 2:Well, being an interventionist is really about someone coming to me and I see that they are. I'm trying to intervene on a path that they're on that's not serving them, and it depends on how much crisis a person comes to me with. Like, if a couple comes to me, if a couple is really, really struggling and, let's say, they're on the brink of divorce or splitting up, they do need an intervention to figure out what it is that they're going to do. So it really is. When I think about it, it's like I'm much more. I'm very forward and I'm very strong with the people I work with. So I'm not just letting them just so. Certain clients I've worked with they need to talk, you know, and I let them vent, but I'm always going to insert my opinion and if I think someone is really going in the wrong direction, I'm going to be very brutally honest about that. So in that way, that's how I see it as more of like an interventionist.
Speaker 1:Very cool. What are your views on dating apps?
Speaker 2:You know, I have a few clients who've met the love of their lives on dating apps and but a lot of people who are very frustrated by it. I think that, look, it's the world that we live in. I think what makes it very difficult and sad is that this whole swiping culture it's like everyone is just so disposable and that's not what we need. We need more connection, and so I I really find that part of it incredibly difficult to for people to navigate and I find it really sad.
Speaker 2:If you're going to be on the apps couple of things, don't say what it is that you don't want. Focus on what it is that you do want. Be very, very honest. If you are a single mother of three, make sure some of the pictures that you show this is part of the authenticity conversation, by the way like, be authentic and show a picture with you and your kids. Don't don't have every picture. Be you, have you all dolled up? Like, have there be a picture no makeup, smiling, you know, like something very candid, I said, and this is for men too, and just like anything else on social media, it becomes very addictive, and then you see someone has, you know, whatever message you, then you get a hit of dopamine.
Speaker 2:So you have to really be mindful and disciplined so that you don't let it control you. If you're exhausted being on the apps, delete your app. Yeah, if you can go into the dating world saying I'm just going to have fun and I'm just going to put myself out there because I need practice dating, I need to meet new people, I need to just like have that experience, then I say, get on the apps. It's all it really is. I hate to say a mindset thing.
Speaker 1:Yep, I would agree. And speaking of which, what are your views on compatibility? Like you, just compatibility versus love? You know, can you? Just compatibility versus love? You know, can you what are obstacles that you can overcome? For example, people two people are on vacation and one lives in New York and one lives in, you know, ohio and they rendezvous in Mexico and they, you know, and they fall in love, but they have a geographical difference. Or maybe one person has raised their kids. The other person had kids later in life, so he or she still has young kids, but they think they love each other. But one person isn't sure. If he wants to go through all that process, should he look at it as, hey, I love this woman, I'll make it work.
Speaker 2:So love versus compatibility in a relationship, yeah, sorry. So I think that you know choosing a partner has to be a practical, uh process as much as it is emotional, and so there are certain things that you just have to be in alignment over, and kids being one of them money, lifestyle, sex, religion or spiritual beliefs, just certain things you just need to be in a line, like your core values have to be in alignment. But as far as just like straight up compatibility, I think compatibility is very important, but you know there are introverts and extroverts that love each other and end up having a great relationship, but it's just a matter of everything else is sort of in line and are they okay with you know, like okay, like when we go on vacation, I like to do a bunch of things and my partner likes to, you know, just chill and read on the beach. That could be a problematic thing.
Speaker 2:But if everything else is sort of in line and that's how you are on vacation and you're okay with just spending, you know, half the day apart and the other half a day, you know, doing things together, and maybe the introvert or, you know, the person who likes to read on the beach, is like yeah, I'll do this one activity with you and one day the other one is like yeah, I'll sit on the beach with you. So it's just a matter of are you willing to like do you love this person enough to do some of the things that they love to do? Because that's very important for any relationship. Sometimes you do, sometimes you got to do the things that they love to do, that you don't necessarily love to do because you want to be a part of their world. But I think that when it comes to the compatibility conversation, a good thing to ask is what does a Sunday afternoon look like for you? Because how you like to spend a Sunday afternoon will really show to people how compatible they are.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Saturday night and a Sunday afternoon.
Speaker 1:I like that. That's a good little litmus test for sure yeah. Yeah, excellent, you mentioned we can't have a relationship conversation without talking about sex. So, long-term relationship, what are some tips that you have for people to keep the spice, to keep the passion, to just keep the intimacy alive and well after two years, five years, 10 years, 15 years?
Speaker 2:Okay. So number one is don't expect it to be the same as it was when you first met. The reason why it's so sexy in the beginning and it's not so sexy for everyone. There are actually people who will report saying the sex was okay and then six, seven, eight months a year in it actually got a lot better. But generally speaking, the reason why it's so great in the beginning is because there's so much novelty and there's so much uncertainty and it's like living on the edge of that it's almost like on the edge of danger makes things very exciting.
Speaker 2:But when you get to know someone and you feel safe with them, there's a whole another level that you can access of your erotic self and your erotic life together, and then you can start experimenting with certain things.
Speaker 2:So but then it's like, let's just say, there's kids involved, there's work, stress, there's all of this. So number one is be mindful of how stressed out you are, because when we're chronically stressed, we're not in our bodies, we don't feel attractive and we're not attracted to our partner. When they're stressed out, that's not in our bodies, we don't feel attractive and we're not attracted to our partner. When they're stressed out, that's not when they're hot, so we have to watch our stress levels. When you're managing household and children, you have to prioritize it and schedule it. I don't care Like I know that's not hot, but you know, get over it. Prioritize your relationship and prioritize your sexual relationship. Don't make your life revolve around the kids and their schedules, because your kids part of what's going to actually serve them is them feeling the love between you and your spouse or your partner.
Speaker 1:Great answer.
Speaker 2:But one more. But also one more thing, please, yeah. Which is that oftentimes, when the magic goes out between us and another person, it's like the passion has kind of gone out in ourselves, and so we get like a little lazy and we get like maybe we get stuck in a rut or we're just always wearing our sweatpants and we're not actually going on dates. We get too comfortable, and it's really important to feel comfortable with the person you're in a relationship with. But one of the most underrated or under acknowledged dangers to a relationship is getting too comfortable. So you stop trying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a couple of those I can clearly relate to in the breakup of my marriage, one of those being the stress factor. I was busy launching a new company and still running a different company, and you're right when I'm stressed and upset, that's not a very attractive person for one. And then what you just mentioned as well getting so comfortable. And after she left and I've told this story on the podcast as well I said something to her about. She said well, I felt like you didn't really even want me anymore. And I said well, you came to bed every night in you know grandma pajamas and she turns around and she says to me well, why didn't you buy me some sexy pajamas?
Speaker 2:Right, so there's, that's the blame game. I mean, that's just really what it is. It's the blame game, but that resonated with me. It stopped me in my tracks.
Speaker 1:It totally stopped me in my tracks, though, because here I was like saying you know you're bringing her, but you're not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And when she said that, I'm like wow you know, I, I, yeah, that would have to stop it Victoria's secrets on the way home. And hey, honey, I picked you something you know that would have made her feel you know, so. So anyway, it was, that was one of the first times, I think, that I started saying, okay, what role did I play in in in all of this? And it, uh, really set me on this journey of, yeah, looking inward, that you that we talk about. So I know we're pressed for time, so a couple other quick questions I want to get to one.
Speaker 2:Can I just add one thing that I think will be oh, please, really, even if we go over, of course, because I think this will be really great for your please. We don't do this consciously, but when we get into a relationship, what we are unconsciously really yearning for is our partner to love us unconditionally the way a parent would. So we think that even when we go into these very stressed out states, we think how could they not understand? They have to love me anyway, I want them to take care of me.
Speaker 2:We feel so misunderstood when we're really stressed out and maybe they're reacting to that, maybe they're pulling away because we're constantly stressed out, and then in our head, this is the stay in your head and your relationship is that. Then in our head we're thinking you know, but they don't love me for who I am, they're not understanding me, and in that moment what we're craving is not conscious, but what we're craving is mom or dad consoling us and just loving us, even though we're in this state. And the thing is it just doesn't work like that in a romantic relationship and this is really the trouble that we get ourselves into.
Speaker 1:Wow, yeah, that really hits home for me for sure. Wow, okay, a listener. I did a post yesterday saying, hey, I'm going to be interviewing Jillian tomorrow. Anybody that has any questions, shoot me. And I received a comment on Instagram from a Marilyn who wanted me to ask you what are your thoughts on starting over in the dating world after a long marriage ends? Is it better to wait a while or just jump right back?
Speaker 2:in. Jump right back in.
Speaker 1:Interesting? Yeah, wow, I did not see that answer coming. Interesting, wow, I did not see that answer coming.
Speaker 2:Interesting. I think you know, obviously, if there was some. There's obviously processing that needs to be done. There's self-reflection that needs to be done. But a pattern you know, especially with women, is that they will get so stuck in the processing and then they will take years before they get themselves out there. No, I think it's much healthier to get yourself back out there. The people who I've admired the most that now let me make a distinction. It's one thing to just jump from relationship to relationship, never making any changes, and then all you do is repeating patterns because we just take ourselves wherever we go. So that's one pattern and that's not something that I those are the people I'm like slow down, you need to be alone.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I think that this, this we're being shoved, this idea like you need to be alone, I think it's. I think we're going too far in that direction. What if what's really best for that person is to really get out there and to recognize that, like that marriage that they were, that there's so much more to life in the marriage that they were in? So I don't think you know, so it's hard to say I would. I would obviously have to meet with the person and see, like no, you need to time out, versus you need to get back in, out there, but you're just exiting a long marriage. Like, get out there, like it doesn't mean you jump into a relationship right away, sure.
Speaker 1:That's a very good distinction, yeah.
Speaker 2:Get out there just to just know that, like your life doesn't end because that marriage ended. There's more fish in the sea, there's more experiences to have, and I really admire the people who can, who don't lick their wounds for months and years on end and they say, okay, I licked my wounds, I processed, now it's next, I'm going to keep on going. Those people are happier people.
Speaker 1:Great answer, Do you believe? I just want to insert this one in real quick too. Do you believe in a twin flame or a soulmate?
Speaker 2:I don't really understand the twin flame thing, like that's a that's. I don't get it. I don't even know what the hell that means.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. Nor do I so, uh, but I'm hearing it a lot lately.
Speaker 2:I don't understand it. It's not. It's not my, my line of thinking. I think we have many soulmates. I think the soulmate is anyone who there's two ways that I look at it. A soulmate is anyone who comes into your life and helps you to grow and, even if that means it's painful, you've grown as a result of that. Soulmate is someone who feel just an intense connection to you and you feel like there's some sort of karma between the two of you. You were meant to meet, you were meant to have this relationship, you were meant to be in each other's lives, but that doesn't mean that it's meant to last. And then there's another way of looking at a soulmate, which is maybe this is a more mature way of looking at I don't know, know, but someone who is really willing to do the journey with you, like is it all in and you're all in with them, love it. So I think those are great.
Speaker 1:Look at it, yeah yeah, and I so agree with you on that. By the way, I've called bullshit on this. You have one soulmate around the world. It's like you know how many people marry their soulmate, and they both grew up in a town of 1 000 people in nebr, nebraska, and their soulmate happened to be right down the street.
Speaker 2:Exactly Proximity so yeah this one, this idea of the one, is I don't believe that, yeah.
Speaker 1:Totally agree. All right, we are out of time. So to our very last question, Jillian what advice do you have for us and our listeners on how we can help make the world a better place?
Speaker 2:us and our listeners on how we can help make the world a better place. I think that if we stop hating ourselves so much and stop judging ourselves so much, then we will show other people mercy too, and I think that that's how we make the world a better place, because if we're constantly hating other people because they represent something that we hate in ourselves, so if we can make peace with ourselves, then we can make peace with others, and if we have more people making peace with themselves and others, we have a better world.
Speaker 1:Beautiful answer, beautiful For our listeners. You can go to JillianTereckicom. I will put the URL in the episode notes Jillian's brand new podcast, which we've talked about today. A lot of the content that we've talked about and so much more is out on our podcast. That's Jillian on Love, available wherever you get your podcasts, and on Instagram, jillian Trekke at Jillian Trekke J-I-L-L-I-A-N-T-U-R-E-C-K-I and Jillian real quickly the type of services you offer for clients that they can find on your website.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I have a membership. This is actually for women. It's called the Conscious Woman and it's basically a community of incredible women trying to be the best that they can be. And there's all my workshops and live events. I do live workshops and book clubs. That's all in there. And then I also have all these workshops a la carte, so anyone can go to it and just pick up a workshop. And I have my Heartbreak Workbook. If you're someone who's going through heartbreak, I have a downloadable PDF that has changed people's lives. I literally outlined the entire steps that I took to transition out of being in the dark night of the soul into a new life.
Speaker 1:Awesome, jillian. Thank you so much. I've had so much fun in this conversation and I think there's so many of us men especially, I think need to hear so many of the things that you teach and talk about. So thank you for all you do and we'd love to have you back at some point in time. Thank you again, appreciate it, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:I so appreciate being here.
Speaker 1:Special thanks to my guest, jillian Turecki. To learn more about Jillian, please visit her website at JillianTureckicom and check out her brand new podcast called Jillian on Love. Thanks to our producer Noah Existe and editor Joe Tampoco. Our music was written and performed by Algie and Importante. Thank you so much for listening. If this podcast brightened your day in any way, please subscribe and leave us a rating and review. If you have any ideas for potential guests or suggestions on how we can improve our show, please shoot us an email at betterplaceprojectpodcast at gmailcom or leave us a voice memo by clicking on the microphone on the homepage of our website. For updates on our show, please visit us on Instagram at betterplaceproject, or head to our website at betterplaceprojectorg. Look for small ways to be kind to others this week and that will help make the world a better place. Make the world a better place. Make the world a better place. Make the world a better place.
